Bucksketball Podcast

Report: Hawks, Bucks Discuss Jennings-for-Teague Swap

| July 8, 2013

Category: The Off Season

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The Milwaukee Hawks left for St. Louis in 1955. In the first three seasons after they left, they went from Conference Finalist to NBA Finalist to NBA Champs.

This mildly disappointing offseason has been all about reunions for the Bucks. Bringing back Zaza Pachulia. Signing Carlos Delfino after giving him the cold shoulder a season ago. Reuniting former Hawks and current Bucks coach Larry Drew with two of his former staff members (plus Zaza). If nothing else, the Bucks have drawn on past experience to put together a group of stable locker room personalities.

Now there is the potential to add an even more significant member of the 2012-13 Hawks, who finished with a 44-38 record — six games ahead of the 38-44 Bucks. From Mark Stein at ESPN.com,

Sources briefed on the situation told ESPN.com that the Hawks and Bucks have in recent days discussed a sign-and-trade deal to land Brandon Jennings in Atlanta and send fellow restricted free agent Jeff Teague to Milwaukee to reunite with former Hawks coach Larry Drew. ESPN.com reported early in free agency that the Bucks, at Drew’s behest, had interest.

Bring back the Milwaukee Hawks! Woo-hoo, party like it’s 1955!

The fascination that the talent-strapped Bucks have with acquiring non-stars from a six seed is puzzling. At the same time, though, the Bucks won’t be getting any surprises. ¬†Larry Drew knows exactly what he has in Pachulia and what he would have in Jeff Teague. If Drew suggested that John Hammond make a play for Teague, then that’s clearly a player he can live with. Can Drew happily co-exist with Brandon Jennings? Who knows? It’s a positive known versus an unknown — so unless the talent level is lopsided in Jennings’ favor, the known wins out (provided that Hammond can pull off an amenable deal).

Speaking of talent levels, here are their statistics from last season:

Rk Player Season Age MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL TOV PF PTS
1 Brandon Jennings 2012-13 23 2897 497 1247 .399 173 461 .375 230 281 .819 246 521 125 203 155 1397
2 Jeff Teague 2012-13 24 2628 439 974 .451 89 248 .359 199 226 .881 180 579 117 230 181 1166
Rk Player PER TS% eFG% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Brandon Jennings 16.1 .510 .468 4.6 29.1 2.2 0.3 12.9 23.7 106 108 3.6 2.2 5.8 .096
2 Jeff Teague 16.8 .543 .496 3.9 36.1 2.3 0.8 17.6 23.0 106 106 3.5 2.6 6.1 .111

Jennings took care of the ball better than Teague did. Teague played better defense and made a much higher percentage of two-point shots (48.2% to 41.2%), though one might argue that he did so when surrounded with a better group of offensive players on a lower usage rate.

Here also is a quick look at their shot locations last season (from Vorped.com), with Jennings on the left and Teague on the right:

Screen shot 2013-07-08 at 11.31.21 AM

Jennings had the edge as a jump shooter, but Teague gets shots at the rim more frequently and converts them with a much higher success rate — and the distinction is most stark on Jennings’ natural left-hand side. Egad.

If the Bucks’ interest in the Hawks is odd, the Hawks’ fascination with bringing in Bucks is odder. The Hawks are reportedly interested in Monta Ellis, though Atlanta had the good sense to learn from Milwaukee’s failed experiment of 2012-13. According to Stein,

If those sign-and-talks progress to the serious stage, sources said, Atlanta would inevitably have to rescind its longstanding interest in Ellis, knowing he and Jennings realistically couldn’t play together again given how poorly they functioned as a backcourt duo in Milwaukee last season.

What is this ‘failure’ of which Stein speaks? The Bucks made the playoffs last season. Isn’t the hallmark of a successful season whether or not you eked in as a sub-.500 eight-seed?

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Husband. Father. Blogger. Retired mathlete. I covered Larry Sanders' "Three Thumbs Up" game as credentialed media -- and failed to see well enough to witness the thumbing as it happened. On Twitter, I'm anaheimamigos.

Comments (46)

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  1. Sillybilly says:

    How I wish this would happen. Unfortunately Gary Woefel just tweeted Bucks are offering BJ3 11M, hopefully thats for a s&t otherwise I am not going to be happy.

    • apdamico says:

      Me too, Teague made Jennings look well – Silly! This move would make my off-season.

  2. JP says:

    This one is easy: Larry Drew knows how to work with Teague, utilized him well, and in the head-to-heads when both players were suited up, Teague outscored BJ by 20 and dropped 5 more dimes (64 and 28 vs 44 and 23). The teams were different, obviously, but being bigger and a year older also helps.

    Not entirely sure why Atlanta wants to do this, to be honest, but this would be a nice win for Milwaukee. These moves have, for the most part, been good ones so far. This would just seal the deal.

    • Sillybilly says:

      If nothing else Atlanta would benefit from a boost in fan interest with Jennings in a line-up. I can say that his swag would be welcomed much more there than in Milwaukee.

    • Chris says:

      Seal the deal for what? Another 8th seed and first round sweep?

  3. Kevin says:

    keep jennings

  4. Sfisch says:

    This appears to be a great move for the Bucks. For one thing, Teague seems like a true point guard, but Brandon not so much — and we really need a guy or two who will truly lead the team and get good shots for others. If Teague is a pass-oriented guy, then let’s do this!
    I think it’s a good sign that Atlanta players want to follow their coach to a new team — speaks well of Larry Drew, and looking at it the other way, speaks well of the players.

  5. Miggity says:

    We’re keeping BJ, no question about it.

  6. apdamico says:

    Please make this come true!

  7. apdamico says:

    I hope we can also work an S&T for Ellis, instead of getting nothing in return for him.

    I rather see an Ellis and Mayo backcourt than Jennings and Mayo, but my ultimate backcourt was always Teague and Mayo.

    I certainly hope this deal is fact!

    • Sillybilly says:

      Don’t get your hopes too high, the Bucks are known to disappoint lol

      • apdamico says:

        Maybe, but I could see Ellis out and Salmons coming back for the final year of his contract.

        Of course we’d have to get the Kings 2nd round pick!

        • SillyBilly says:

          Wow that would be cooky to have salmons and delfino back. I don’t think we have the cap to take on Salmons and add a pg tho…unless additional moves are made

  8. Vijay says:

    Is there a turkey we could stick with mayo? That way we’d have a delicious Turkey sandwich backcourt!

  9. happyfeethustle says:

    This proposed trade works well for Milwaukee. We just signed two players that can help improve scoring ( Mayo,Del333noooo)-but in order to score you need the ball in ur hands 1st. Brandon really hates to let other players on his team prosper. I trust that our new head coach is mixing up a batch of success , just need correct ingerdients.

    Jennings is NOT worth $11 mil a season. Bucks take a step back if they lock into anything long term, with too much $$$ involved for him. I would like to say Jennings has helped the franchise-because its true! He energized us all in that rookie season, and subsequent 1st rd loss to Atlanta that went 7 games. Very exciting time for the city and renewed fan interest….so thanks for that much at least Brandon. However, think time has come to move onto new path. Make this trade work Hammond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    GO BUCKS GO

    • Aaron Love says:

      It’s not Brandon’s fault that he was one of the two players that was able to create his own shot. He has heart and to say that he doesn’t like for his teammates to prosper is absurd. We have a small market team and it would be insane to trade a 23 year old kid who is battle tested and has shone up against big teams with big names. Each year he had to adjust to not having a post treat and important players injuries. He’s worth the money and bringing back Delfino will be good for everyone. If they stay healthy, it’s the same team that should have beat the hawks with no bogut.

      • SillyBilly says:

        Then please explain why the bucks are better when he is on the bench:

        12/13 Bucks with Jennings on court:
        - 5.7 pts/100
        12/13 Bucks with Jennings on bench: + 7.9 pts/100

        11/12 Bucks with Jennings on court: -2.6 pts/100
        11/12 Bucks with Jennings on bench: +6.9 pts/100

        So yea I think the Bucks would be quite sane to go with Teague instead, who happens to have a + split

        • Aaron Love says:

          Those numbers are arbitrary. The bucks had no chance of winning without Brandon on the floor. He’s a dynamo, Teague is a role player that will disappear. We have enough role players. The Atlanta Hawks never marketed Teague. He’ll break under that pressure because he’s another Devin Harris. But, I would much rather have Devin Harris for a systematic point guard. When the system isn’t working we need someone who can create. When we need a comeback Teague will not provide that spark.

          • SillyBilly says:

            “Those numbers are arbitrary”

            What exactly does that mean?

            I’d say those numbers along with Jennings lack of offensive efficiency and defense are pretty damning.

            There are a number of players on the Bucks squad who could create shots and convert at 40%. Hell, let Larry take more shots in the post and we will likely have a better chance athan with Brandon shooting 17 times a game. There’s really no substantiation behind your claim that we have no chance of winning without him when the stats from the past two years clearly show the opposite.

          • Sfisch says:

            Plus, it would be interesting to know what Brandon’s efficiency was at converting shots at the end of games.
            My hunch is not so good.

  10. apdamico says:

    Rumor has it that Al Hortford and Larry Sanders are also part of this deal. It would make sense because I was wondering why Atlanta would take Jennings.

    I hope the Bucks are trying to make it Ersan and Henson instead of Larry. Hortford and Sanders would make a great front court, plus Hortford is a PF, not a 5.

    • SillyBilly says:

      Wow, where is that rumor coming from? That would be insane. Horford is pretty stellar but I’m not sure how I feel about giving up Larry.

    • Aaron Love says:

      Al Hortford isn’t even a top ten PF in the east anymore. So why give a budding star in Larry who covers a lot of ground D, For a 6’9 guy with slow feet and likes to shoot jump shots and doesn’t have the speed to chase loose balls.

      • apdamico says:

        I wouldn’t go that far, he’s did have his best season last year and the Hawks likely want to benefit off that. He’s still only 27, so we are not talking about an aging vet here.

        BTW, I don’t believe the sourse is very reliable anyway, but I couldn’t figure out why the Hawks would take Jennings. That fact alone made me think this could be part of the discussions.

        As I stated, Ersan for Hortford is a must do.

        • Sfisch says:

          From what I saw of Al Hortford against the Bucks, including a game-winning shot, plus my other impressions of him, he seems like a premier player in the NBA — plus a good guy in general.
          There’s no way I would trade Larry! As far as trading John Henson, I would be very, very, very reluctant to do so. If there’s another way to get this done, however, Hortford could be the all-star player that really makes a difference for this team — especially in conjunction with our other recent moves — although we would also need Teague or another true point guard to make it all come together. This could put us in the top four seeds, I dare say.
          Maybe I’m way off here! What do others think?

    • bucks1988 says:

      ya i wouldn’t trade Horford for Sanders either. Good centers are hard to come by. PF not as much

  11. Mokeski says:

    This team is absolutely maddening. Contract offers to Ellis, Korver, Budinger, JR Smith and Tony Allen??? Thank goodness zero of these worked out, as all would have been depressing signings. Brining in Mayo, Zaza and Delfino? If you’re not tanking in 2014, I actually love all three of those moves/dollar amounts/years. However, just when I was feeling shockingly good about the state of the Bucks comes a Jeff Teague-for-Brandon Jennings swap. There’s a lot of mixed emotions about Brandon, but there is no comparison on the court. Jennings is often boom-or-bust, but Teague is rarely anything besides mediocre. DO NOT DO THIS BUCKS.

    • bucks1988 says:

      the rumor is Jennings wants 12mil a year. what are your thoughts on that? Im with ya that jennings is better, but at what cost?

      • Patti #1 says:

        $12M sounds like a lot but if you consider that last year all his comparable “class mates” signed deals for $10 – $12 while BJ played for $2.5M …he is owed $8M. Amortize that $8M over the next four years and you come up with $12M.

        It sounds like a lot but in NBA dollars it really isn’t that big of a stretch. Deron Williams makes >$16M.

        I would like to pay BJ $12M before I want to see us trade him and Sanders for Teague and Hortford. That’s just silly IMHO.

        • SillyBilly says:

          Haha Patti, you love Jennings

          • Patti #1 says:

            I don’t love Jennings, but I sure don’t have the deep hatred for him that you do.

          • SillyBilly says:

            I don’t hate him, don’t hope he gets injured or sick or anything. Just don’t want him on the bucks especially not for 12M a year.

          • SillyBilly says:

            I don’t hate him, don’t hope he gets injured or sick or anything. Just don’t want him on the bucks especially not for 12M a year, because I have common sense

        • Sfisch says:

          I agree, Patti, that there’s no way we should trade Larry in this deal — or any other deal, for that matter.
          I have been a big fan of Brandon, but he seems to have really pushed my relationship with him to the breaking point. He seems so immature on and off the court. I really wish him well, but I’d be reluctant to pay him half of the salary being reported. Sadly, I think it’s time for him to move on.

    • Aaron Love says:

      Thank You!!! And as far as Brandon asking for 12mil, He’s starting high to get the best deal possible. If I were him, I would ask for 13.5… hahaha

    • SillyBilly says:

      Did you read the statistical analysis above? Your conclusion that Jennings is clearly better is not substantiated by fact.

      Add in the fact that Teague totally outplayed Jennings in head to head match ups last year, and that our head coach prefers him, and that he will likely be cheaper, and Teague seems like a better pick up.

      • apdamico says:

        The above is certainly true, Teague outplayed Jennings badly in each matchup. There also seems to be some bad blood between the two.

  12. Patti #1 says:

    If Teague and Jennings “swap” places, then they would be getting paid the same thing, so Teague would not be cheaper.

    What concerns me is not an even “swap”, but what else would be a part of making any trade with Atlanta work. Do we really value Teague so much as to give up some other future potential type of asset?

    Anyway…this hasn’t happened yet, so good chance it never will. Meanwhile our starting point guard is Ish Smith and we should just cut Jennings, why? That was rhetorical…I really don’t want to hear it all again.

    • SillyBilly says:

      Actually if both are signed and traded they can both have different annual salaries. There’s no requirement for salaries to equal in offseason trades. Jennings is projected to get more but I agree the deals will likely be similar.

  13. Sfisch says:

    It would be interesting to get ratings of the top point guards in this year’s class of free agents, including those already signed.
    More specifically, how does Jeff Teague compare to guys like Jose Calderon, Eric Bledsoe, Darren Collison, Devin Harris and, yes, Brandon Jennings? The main criteria is (1)whether a guy is a good floor leader; (2)whether he has a pass-first mentality while still being able to score his own points; (3)whether he has a good, team-oriented attitude; and (4)last but not least, whether he has good skills and instincts for the position.
    It’s more or less like needing a qood quarterback. Whatever else is to be said about Brandon and Monta, I don’t think they are true point guards. Unless we get a guy or two who is at least solid in all of the areas listed above, then the whole team is going to suffer — and our players will be hindered in their development and get discouraged about playing for the Bucks.