The kind of defense that can be built on: Bucks 89 – Heat 88

Miami Heat 88 Final
Recap | Box Score
89 Milwaukee Bucks
Ersan Ilyasova, PF 29 MIN | 7-15 FG | 3-4 FT | 11 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 3 BLK | 1 TO | 19 PTS | 0 +/-

He helped Milwaukee keep pace early with 11 first quarter points and then hit a couple of shots down the stretch that were crucial. After pump-faking Michael Beasley, he stepped in and shot a fadeaway jumper where he made a lot of contact with Beasley, but didn’t get the call. Fortunately for the Bucks, the very difficult attempt fell in, leaving the team down four points with 3:17 to play. He came up big a few times in similar ways late.

Giannis Antetokounmpo, SF 39 MIN | 6-10 FG | 4-4 FT | 10 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 3 BLK | 6 TO | 16 PTS | +8 +/-

This seemed to be a fairly quiet game for Giannis. He didn’t have any big time highlights, but he made a few jumpers outside of the paint and took advantage of mismatches and passes inside the paint whenever he had the opportunity. Everything seems to be coming more and more naturally to him, though I bet most Bucks fans would like to see even more aggression, especially when the Bucks are struggling to get points as badly as they were in the third quarter.

Zaza Pachulia, C 33 MIN | 6-11 FG | 2-3 FT | 11 REB | 7 AST | 5 STL | 1 BLK | 3 TO | 14 PTS | +18 +/-

It worked out in the favor of Pachulia that Miami center Hassan Whiteside went out in the first half with a hand injury. Miami’s backup centers, Udonis Haslem and Chris Andersen lacked the same sort of agility that seems to really hamper Zaza, so he was able to make a difference on the offensive glass with five boards. His biggest impact obviously came as he scrambled for that last board and last assist leading to Middleton’s shot.

Michael Carter-Williams, PG 26 MIN | 1-4 FG | 2-2 FT | 3 REB | 4 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 6 TO | 4 PTS | +6 +/-

Is he good? Are we sure he’s good? I’m not sure he’s good. He had both more fouls and more turnovers than assists or points.

Khris Middleton, SG 39 MIN | 5-17 FG | 1-2 FT | 4 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 13 PTS | 0 +/-

He hit a game winning shot, moments after a crucial turnover that almost dashed Milwaukee’s hopes. The two plays illustrated his current strengths well. He drove into the paint, trying to create a good look with 47 seconds to play when he saw Zaza open under the hoop. He rifled a pass that went straight out of bounds without Zaza getting a hand on it. Right idea, poor execution. His catch and shoot three to win the game? Despite having made only 1-7 threes leading into that shot, he took it with all the confidence in the world. He knows he just has to keep shooting and eventually they’ll go in.

Miles Plumlee, C 16 MIN | 4-8 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 8 PTS | +2 +/-

He had two or three dunks in which he capitalized on being in the right place at the right time. That seems to be what Jason Kidd is looking for out of his big men though, so that’s a successful strategy for Plumlee to employ. If he can continue to find himself around the rim, he’ll probably end up with more and more open dunks, as the Bucks have played unselfishly all season long.

John Henson, C 12 MIN | 2-5 FG | 1-2 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 5 PTS | -16 +/-

As unnoticeable as he’s been in a long time.

Tyler Ennis, PG 4 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 0 PTS | -6 +/-

I know he is not good. But he is young, so there’s a chance he might be good at some point. The only thing he did in this game was throw a bad pass that was immediately stolen and taken the other way for a layup.

Jerryd Bayless, PG 37 MIN | 5-13 FG | 0-0 FT | 5 REB | 5 AST | 2 STL | 1 BLK | 1 TO | 10 PTS | 0 +/-

A positive thing that can be said for Bayless is that he plays with great effort at all times. It was that effort that led to the tie up of Michael Beasley and led to Milwaukee gaining that last possession after Bayless’ jump ball victory. A negative thing that can be said about Bayless is that he doesn’t shoot the ball very well anymore and is often the centerpiece of Milwaukee’s scoring efforts off the bench.

O.J. Mayo, SG 6 MIN | 0-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | -7 +/-

He made a surprise second half appearance after being a game time decision. Most people expected he wouldn’t play after sitting out the first half, but things got so bad for Milwaukee for a while in the second half that Kidd went to Mayo in an apparent effort to jump start the team. He had one nice assist to a streaking Miles Plumlee and missed all of his shots, but none of his shot attempts was gratuitous.

Three Things We Saw

  1. It was truly exciting to see Middleton’s shot go in at the buzzer, but I’m uncertain it’s going to alter this team’s immediate future. MCW seems like a mess. Few people on this team can make a 3-point shot right now and the turnovers never stop. Again the Bucks had 20 turnovers.
  2. More impressive than Middleton’s shot was Milwaukee’s defense in the fourth quarter, which seemed to be the sort of thing the Bucks can actually build on. If they can figure out what they did so well in the fourth quarter to limit the Heat’s chances, then the Bucks might have something. It seemed to be as simple as everyone playing with a bit more focus and energy – players were rotating and covering for each other very aggressively and in general Milwaukee seemed to be a step ahead of Miami’s offense. But maybe there was more to it. Maybe something happened that Kidd can get the team to channel going forward. Milwaukee’s offense doesn’t seem like it’s going to be a strength any time soon, so the Bucks have to figure out a way to play virtually the best defense in the league the rest of the season if they hope to both make the playoffs and play compelling basketball in late April.
  3. I ate dipping dots at this game for the first time in years. The cup I ate them out of did not say that they were the “ice cream of the future” as I remember dipping dots cups used to say. Is that no longer the motto? Are we in the future now, so there’s no longer a need to proclaim that they are for tomorrow if tomorrow has arrived? Whatever the case with their branding, I found them to be as delightful as I remembered and I’d highly suggest you indulge if you’re looking for something sweet at your next Bucks game.

Categories: Recaps



  1. Expert analysis on MCW. Chock full of insight and I really like that you take into account the difficulty of integrating a new point guard mid-season. Award winning stuff. All sarcasm aside, this is the same stuff people were writing about Rondo in Dallas, and after a few weeks they look like idiots now don’t they?

    • You’re talking about Rajon Rondo the four time All-Star, yes? I do’nt know, seems like that’s a different situation, given that he’s a four time All-Star and not a second year player without a track record.

      • Well his apparently non-existent track record is reigning rookie of the year, a second year player who was traded mid-season tasked with being the starting point guard for a playoff team, and has responded by scoring in double figures in 11 of the 16 games since, with statistics indicating that he is a clear net positive on both offense and defense. I’m not looking to compare him to Rondo’s career, I’m comparing the situations because trading a point guard mid-season is always followed by an adjustment period.

  2. Just gonna move my comments from the post on the game winner over here in regards to MCW:

    Last night, he ended up with I believe 6 TOs and only one of them was a bad pass (a hilariously bad pass though). He had a simple miscommunication with Giannis on the first possession of the game (which is to be expected with a new PG, and probably won’t happen next year when he’s gelled with the team), Zaza drop a wide open pass, an iffy offensive foul call, one play where it looked like he got fouled on his way to the rim, and then one where he dribbled himself into trouble and turned it over. In the first half, the only guy on the team that I think played better than him was Zaza. MCW made a lot of good things happen in the first half that just don’t show up in the stat line, while a lot of the bad things that did show up weren’t really his fault. He disappeared in the 2nd half (and then proceeded to foul out and ACTUALLY disappear with like 7 minutes left), but he played a big role in giving us a lead in the first half (which the bench proceeded to blow).

    Just because he didn’t end up getting credit for the assists doesn’t mean he wasn’t moving the ball well (in the first half at least). It was a lot of creating good looks that resulted in missed bunnies, or a lot of hockey assists. The box score doesn’t show it, but I think he made some progress in terms of getting back to being more of a pure PG again, and I think the fact that up until that miraculous run to end the game, he, Zaza, and Plumlee were the only three players that had a positive +/- kinda supports the idea that he played much better than his stat line showed.

    And that’s pretty much been the trend the entire time since the trade. Our best lineups have been when Zaza and MCW on the floor, even moreso than lineups that include Giannis or Middleton.

    The +/-‘s of our three respective PGs since the trade are as follows:
    MCW: +12
    Bayless: -93
    Ennis: -49

    Ironically, a lot of us (not myself) harped on Knight because our opponents outscored us when he was on the floor and then we would take off once he went to the bench. Now, we outscore our opponents when MCW is on the floor and then completely collapse once we remove him, and people harp on him as the reason we lose.

    He’s not a good player yet, but he’s not the spawn of Satan that a lot of Bucks fans have made him out to be. He’s a good defender with the potential to be a tremendous defender, probably one of the best rebounders on the team relative to their size, can get in the lane at will, and in terms of passing ability, is probably among the best in the league (not on Rubio’s level or anything, but is probably in that 2nd tier).

    The weaknesses are pretty obvious: he can’t shoot, and despite his great passing ability, he turns it over far too much. But there is a lot of potential there to mold him into a very good starter. We need to give him the offseason to work with Kidd and co. on refining his game and gelling with his teammates. I think he’ll look much different a year from now.

    • Thank you! This is what every Bucks fan needs to read. Unfortunately, many of them are close minded and want to blame the trade for everything. If the bench was playing even close to the level they were prior to the season, the Bucks would be blowing teams out instead of losing close ones. Hurry back OJ and Duds!

    • And we all know stats tell the whole story right? Honestly I’ve been to 3 home games since the trade and I’ve always considered the good ole eye test better than googling advanced stats. Call me crazy but it seems a 6 6 guy who can get into the paint shouldn’t get blocked seemingly every other time he gets there. His passing vision and game iq were oversold to bucks fans obviously. I think the lack of shooters is a factor but as an nba player u adapt. His defense isn’t that good either despite his crazy length. Go ahead and look up his defensive rating or whatever but I see ppl blow by him too often. Brandon knight didn’t have these things in spades either but could create his own shot and had unmeasurable heart. Mcw is a scrub so far and I hope he develops in the off season.

      • Knight got blown by far more than MCW. The Bucks’ Head Stats guy mentioned that as one of the reasons Kidd wanted him so badly. And when MCW does get beat, he does a very good job of blocking or stripping the guy from behind. He’s a much, much better defender than Knight with the potential to become elite on that end.

        And my entire point is that stats DON’T tell the whole story. His stat line was ugly, but he was making a lot of good things happen last night with his passing vision that you’re so quick to toss aside. The only thing that Knight really had on MCW is his scoring ability. MCW is an upgrade everywhere else (but yes, the scoring was hugely in favor of Knight).

        With the eye test, people will see what they want to see. Last night, I saw him doing a very good job of locating mismatches and making good passes to get the ball to his teammates in good spots. But it didn’t show up in the stats because the teammates missed layups or his passes were turned into hockey assists. Using the eye test, he didn’t really turn it over as much as the stats would indicate. He was really only at fault on like 3 of them (which still isn’t good, but it’s acceptable). Then again, I’m not watching to keep an eye out on every little mistake that he makes.

    • Chu, its good to have you as an apparently avid Syracuse fan (are you an alum?) giving perspective on our two new point guards from that school. Generally speaking, your words ring true about giving MCW ample opportunity to develop his game with the Bucks, that he’s worth a try that’s fairly thorough — as long as he keeps the shooting and dribbling in check, and plays hard, in my opinion. Coach Kidd might need to sit him down at times when he gets carried away or careless. Anyway, Chu, I look forward to getting more of your comments on MCW and Tyler Ennis going forward.

      With Zaza playing really well, and Ers playing well to a lesser but still impressive extent, it might be good timing to say that it still really bothers me that both are getting so many minutes. I think these guys could be very helpful to the Bucks this season, and maybe in the future, but they should be secondary to John Henson and Miles in particular, and the building of a tomorrow team in general. Same with Jerryd and Jared and O.J.

      Having said this, I can’t help but applaud Zaza’s amazing effort to keep the ball alive for Khris’ game winner, which comes after a similar amazing effort that led to a recent victory against the Wizards. Also, Jerryd’s tie-up of Beasley was really heads-up; perhaps Beasley was slow to protect the ball, but it seemed like Jerryd snuck up on him real quick.

      I’m really afraid that this game will further encourage Kidd in his seemingly unshakeble and unbreakable preference for our veterans, none of whom seems to be outstanding enough to take too many minutes away from our younger players. Please excuse me if I’m being tiresome, but to me it seems so utterly fruitless and frustrating be relying so much on unremarkable veterans.

      Even Chris Johnson seemed to be doing some nice things for the Bucks when he had some decent minutes, but nowadays he’s been rarely seen on the court.

      Let’s play to win, but let’s play younger and for the future most of all. It’s not as though we’ve been winning all that much with our veterans, anyway.

      • Hey Swisch,

        Yes, I recently graduated from Syracuse, and had the pleasure of getting to watch both MCW and Ennis in high school (I try to watch games of all of the big-time recruits that Syracuse gets commitments from) and then their time at Syracuse. I agree with everything you said regarding MCW needing to keep the shooting and overdribbling in check. In my opinion, the passing ability is there with both of these guys, but in MCW’s case, he needs refinement on his decision-making. He has a really weird combination of having a good basketball mind, but seemingly having too much confidence that he can thread the needle on passing lanes that are sometimes just far too small to risk. And I think one of his issues is that he’s able to create his shot so easily, whether it be by getting into the lane, or creating separation, that he sometimes can’t resist doing so when the team needs a bucket. He was also lauded as a great shooter coming out of high school, so it must be frustrating that he seems to have completely forgotten how to shoot. I doubt he’ll ever be a good shooter, but I do hold out hope he can become a 30-34% 3 point shooter at some point. I’m hoping that the shoulder issues he’s had dating back to Syracuse, on top of his growth spurt from 5’8″ to 6’6″ that occurred around 5 years ago, are a part of the issue and that he’s still adjusting to everything that his body is capable of, but it’s a serious mess right now.

        With Ennis, he is a very good passer too, but he’s simply limited in terms of being able to beat his man and create for others. I see his niche being a Jose Calderon-type guy where he relies on just making good decisions and moving the ball to guys in the right spots rather than really creating for them. I project him to become a good bench guard if you have some talented guys around him that he can pass the ball to. I don’t expect his defense or scoring ability to ever be good, but he has a role in this league.

        Regarding Zaza and Ersan, I can’t help but think that they’re playing time is largely tied to the fact that they’re good fits with MCW and Giannis. I think Kidd sees a better version of Zaza as the perfect C for how he wants to build the team, and Ersan’s ability to stretch the floor is a big deal when you have two guys in MCW and Giannis that are basically non-shooters. I think those two being on the floor helps the development of MCW and Giannis, who are 2 of our 4 most important young guys (2 of 3 with Jabari being out).

        Anyways, last night was a big win for us. I’m hoping it will spark some life back into the team. I know some have been rooting for losses to try to get one last lottery pick, but I really badly want to see how Giannis, Middleton, and MCW adjust to the playoffs when teams really get into scouting and stuff. I think teams will scout Giannis and MCW especially and will be able to force them to really adjust their games if we want to have any chance of stealing a series. I don’t expect it to go all that well, but I think it will be a big learning moment for them and will potentially inspire them to really work to fix some of their weaknesses in their respective games.

    • Couch Potato Scout

      Chu, like everyone else is saying: Finally, someone who actually looks at the potential and the current progress of a player instead of just staring at stats, and believing they tell the whole story, (this isn’t directed whatsoever to the authors of bucksketball.) I also have a question: When MCW was at Syracuse, was his shot uglier and/or worse? Can you see any improvement?
      Also, regarding Ennis, what is his strong suit? Is he a penetrator? A passer? A spot-up shooter? A drive and kick guy? An Defensive energy guy? I just have trouble finding his role in the future.
      You compared him to Jose Calderon (who used to be one of my favorite underrated players), yet Calderon is one of the best spot-up 3pt shooters in the NBA and average about 10 assists. I’m not saying your wrong, but does Ennis really have that type of potential?

      • Re: MCW’s shot at Syracuse

        Unfortunately, it’s gotten worse since his time at Syracuse IMO. It’s really weird. When he was in high school, he was regarded as a great shooter. DraftExpress wrote this about him when he was still in high school: “He is extremely smooth pulling up into his shot with range to well behind the three-point arc. From behind the arc, he can maintain balance and hit shots with a hand in his face frequently, showing a ton of prowess even with the ridiculous defensive attention teams pay him.”

        He shot the ball well his freshman year at Syracuse too, though it was limited reps (7/18 from the 3 point line), and I do vividly remember one of the 7 makes being a banked in 3 from straightaway. After his freshman year, DraftExpress wrote this regarding his shot: “As a shooter, Carter-Williams has good form on his jump shot and has range out to the collegiate three point line and beyond. Very comfortable in catch and shoot situations, Carter-Williams gets good elevation and has a high release point, allowing him to hit at a good clip even when the shot is well contested.

        His effectiveness as a shooter off the dribble wasn’t quite as good, but the sample size is low enough that this isn’t necessarily representative of his skill set, and he could see big improvement going forward as he gets more opportunity, as the form is there. Showing the ability to hit pull-up and mid-range jump shots will be one of the keys to watch going forward, and will make him even more difficult to defend if he establishes himself as a threat to do so.”

        So like I said, his shot has unfortunately gotten worse. At first, I thought it might just be the shoulder injury (he reportedly injured his shoulder his sophomore year and played through it his entire rookie season with Philly before finally having it repaired this past offseason), but I’m definitely concerned that the shot he once had might just be mysteriously gone. Whether or not it was caused by the shoulder injury, his shot that once had a great arc on it has now become much flatter than it was in high school/his freshman year. He’s improved on the arc a little bit over the last year, but obviously the results are not there.

        Re: Ennis

        I would say his biggest strength is his poise and control over the ball. He’s been mysteriously mistake-prone so far with the Bucks, but at Syracuse, he was insanely good at remaining calm under pressure and literally almost never turned the ball over. He’s a very talented passer, but his limited athleticism makes it tough for him to really put pressure on the defense, so he has a difficult time creating for himself and others. I think he’s at his best when he’s playing with guys that you can run plays for. He’s good at moving the ball to get it to guys in the right spots, but they need to create their own space rather than him drawing in the defense to create space for them.

        He can knock down shots when left wide open, but he was very hesitant to take jumpshots at Syracuse. I can tell he’s worked on elevating a little more on his shot; he preferred a set shot at Syracuse. If he gets better in regards to his elevation, he could end up being an okay scorer because he’s very crafty; he knows how to use hesitations, screens, etc. to freeze the defense and get enough space to get a shot off if he can elevate.

        Defensively, he has great hands. Much like MCW, he’s very good at reaching in as a help defender and stripping the ball out. But unlike MCW, I don’t think he’ll ever be a good man to man defender. He just isn’t quick enough and doesn’t have the defensive instincts that MCW has.

        Regarding my Calderon comparison, I should have clarified that I meant more in the way that Calderon distributes. Calderon doesn’t really create for guys, but he has a high basketball IQ and knows how to get the ball to guys in spots that they can score. That is Ennis’ gift IMO. He needs to improve his shot to get to Calderon’s level overall.

        • This might be simplistic, but perhaps the major factor in good shooting is to keep one’s head still and eyes focused on the rim. It’s easy, literally, to lose sight of this — for the head to fly up and the eyes to follow the ball rather than staying fixed on the target.

          This seems to be the key to most sports: head still, eyes focused on the target. A quarterback focuses on the receiver, not on the flight of the ball; a golfer focuses on the hole and not the rolling of the putt. In each case, it’s important to follow through toward the target.

          In a related matter, it seemed to me that Michael Jordan would often almost will the ball into the basket, with his determination and focus. Brandon Knight seems to have some of that. I think there’s a tendency for players to shoot the basketball without an urgency to make the basket. Shoot to score!

          At least those are the musings of a high school scrub from long ago — lots of missed shots give one pause, and sitting on the bench gives one lots of time to think.

        • Couch Potato Scout

          Thank you very much for the detailed analysis. I thought Ennis was known as a game-manager who could get his teammates involved without giving up many turnovers, but his game-play did not show it, so I thought I was mistaken. And as for the insight on MCW, it makes a lot of sense, because when I saw some of his tape when shooting for Syracuse it looked like he had some pretty solid form. But when you saw his form with the 76ers it had gotten significantly worse. Let’s just hope he continues to improve in at least spot-up shooting, because I think if all of our young guys could shoot around 33% from the 3pt line, the Bucks could spread the floor better and then Giannis and MCW’s drives would be much more effective and watching the Bucks’ half-court basketball would be a lot less painful than it is.

  3. It seems like a really difficult temptation for a lot of these young point guards to not take too many shots, because they can get themselves open looks just about anytime down the court. It takes really good discipline and judgement for them to know when to shoot and when not to shoot. Thing is, these young points should get their fair share of shots naturally during the course of a game, so I think it generally really helps their teams if they emphasize getting their teammates involved, especially with good ball movement via the pass.

    Ironically, with MCW, shooting is the least of my concerns (especially with your insights about his shoulder injury and growth spurt), because I think he has good form and a nice touch on his jumpers and free throws, even with his occasional wild misses. I’m glad you’re helping me to stay hopeful about the other parts of his game that have to do with facilitating for his teammates.

    I don’t how apt this is as a comparison, but it’s amazing how much Frank Kaminsky has improved in just a couple years. As I remember it, it wasn’t so long ago that he was somewhat awkward and slack-jawed, plus wearing a headband and goggles, altogether a kind of goofy and gawky look. He’s gone from Napoleon Dynamite to just plain dynamite!

    As for MCW, he really has some impressive athleticism and skills, and it’ll be really interesting to see if he turns his talents as an apprentice into elite basketball craftsmanship at the NBA level — that is, if he doesn’t drive me crazy, first.

  4. I feel you’re being a bit critical of Tyler Ennis. From what’ I’ve seen I feel he has the skills to be a very good point guard. I ‘ve seen excellent court vision and nice smooth jumper from both mid to 3 pt. range, and he also seems to play decent defense. Yes he’s had some turnovers, but he’s young and that’s to be expected. You were a bit harsh on Middleton last year as well. I commented last year that I’d like to see Middleton play shooting guard and you stated he had way to slow of feet for that to happen, you also commented repeatedly that he didn’t play good defense. Well, here he is playing shooting guard and doing quite well and there has been numerous articles written about Middleton being the 3 and D guy every team wants. So, my point is not jump to conclusion with Ennis, I feel had has the tools and will be a very talented player in this league if the opportunity is there.

  5. Time will tell all we need to know about MCW and Ennis and as time goes by I believe we haven’t seen s*** yet. You can say closed minded bucks fan all you want but these are bucks fans that have been bucks fan for years and tired of seeing the same trend and that trend is losing. We’ll give MCW time but until then the criticism is deserved until further notice.

    • That’s what this trade is about. Short term losing for long term success. Or would you rather have short term success for long term mediocrity? Sign me up for the former. Sure a fear the deer type run wouldve been fun, but I’ll take years of winning over one. I hate the Herb Kohl thought process behind so many bucks fans.

    • I’m in agreement with you. I’ve been neutral about the trade, and still am. But what I’ve seen so of MCW are not many good things. Turnovers, Shot selection, lazy/bad passes, we already know about the shooting, and his D is supposed to be good but it was all but non existent this game, an this could just be me but I feel like for his size he really hasn’t looked all that athletic. Not trying to sound like a hater but as fans it’s our job to be critical. I’m not saying we should run him out of town, just that he has a lot to work on. Overall it’s way too early to come to a decision about him and we need to give him time. A full offseason under Kidd and staff will be a great opportunity for him to improve. I hope he can develop into a star for this team. He doesn’t have to be an “elite” or “next J Kidd” pg, just a good solid teammate and contributor who blends with Giannis, Jabari, (the focal points of the team) and Middleton to make that great core that can be a top contender. I want to believe!!

  6. Just want to say, Saul, and I hope it comes off sincerely and in the right way, that I really like what you wrote here and the way you wrote it.

    • Thanks Swisch. I always enjoy your comments and insight on here as well. Keep em coming!

  7. There are way better point guards actual point guards in the draft I rather have. I’ll gamble on Brandon knight and the team chemistry we had for the rest of the season and get one of these young guys that have point general type play like Kris Dunn , tyus Jones or delon wright in this coming draft.

  8. You have a HUGE flaw in your article – it’s “Dippin’ Dots” not “Dipping Dots”

    And I think it’s hard for them to claim they’re the ice cream of the future when they filed for bankruptcy a couple years ago…